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OMG. WTF? Pt.4

Jul 26, 2011 » by Jody

I couldn’t wait to read Michelle Symons article, Why Project Management and ROWE Don’t Mix, because my first thought was ‘why can’t project managers focus on results?’

ROWE is about one thing: achieving results. How an employee or team accomplishes results is completely up to them. The method in which meet, collaborate and hit deadlines is part of the activities that make up work. The most important thing to remember is that in a ROWE, everyone focuses on the outcome. And when everyone focuses on the outcome, results happen.

No results, no job. It’s that simple.

So let’s look at Michelle’s reasons as to why project management and a ROWE don’t mix.

First, she states many project tasks require collaboration and this would be difficult if everyone were to choose where to work from and when to do work. Collaboration can take many forms; instant messaging, texting, Skyping, online meetings, or meeting in a specific location to name a few. And, all the contemporary forms of communicating and connecting with people allow us to also have impromptu discussions and bounce ideas off of co-workers. Think ‘Facebook’ for example. My kids can make things happen in a few minutes by ‘collaborating’ using all forms of communication technology. They do not drive to a specific location to meet to bounce ideas off of each other. What a waste of time!

We also must be careful to not fall into the trap of believing just because everyone isn’t in the office, the ‘social’ aspect of work is compromised in a ROWE. I was just talking to a fellow HR colleague and she said, “There is nothing that compares to a ROWE in terms of building a team. In fact, in all my years doing team building exercises, I have finally found a strategy that does it: ROWE.”

So let’s take a look at what Michelle believes the main disadvantages of a Results-Only Work Environment for projects are.

Michelle states:
The physical location and working hours of staff are important in projects for requirements gathering, specifications and the many collaborative tasks.

ROWE says:
Physical location and working hours are irrelevant; what’s relevant is that the outcomes are clear to everyone on the team so that each person can determine the best way to meet the outcomes. If we fall into the trap of forcing everyone into a specific location and time, we open up the door to cultivate a culture full of presenteeism and Sludge. Time + physical presence does not ensure results will be achieved. In a ROWE, people are where they need to be when they need to be there, and it’s not based on an outdated notion everyone has to be in a specific location to get work done.

Michelle states:
When you need to talk to other members of the team, they may or may not be there. And let’s not forget that not everything can be achieved electronically. Brainstorming sessions, for example, impromptu discussions to clarify requirements and even casual chats at the coffee machine frequently throw up unexpected problems or opportunities.

Whilst some people prefer autonomy, many others work better within a more structured environment.

ROWE says:
In 1950, ‘being there’ meant being in the office. In 2011, ‘being there’ means residing on planet Earth.

When you need to talk to other members, pick up the phone. Send an email. IM. Text. Just because someone is not in the physical office does not mean they are not working or focusing on results.

Work isn’t a place you go, it’s something you do.

One manager in a ROWE said, “I used to think it was important to the work people were able to have informal chats in the hallway and around the water coolers. But now that we are ROWE, I can see how this thinking was misguided; my team is so much more effective now and they have a much more focused versus random communication style. And they don’t waste time sitting in brainstorming meetings.”

And from another manger: “Since ROWE began, my outlook on my job and team has improved tremendously. I am so much more productive and positive. My team is much more goal oriented and positioned to accomplish those goals. The stress/tension level has dropped dramatically.”

Michelle says:
Team-building requires people to mix and learn to work together. It may sometimes, or often, be easier for many people not to have to co-operate with other members of the team, but it is only this “forced” collaboration that leads to a productive, creative and motivated team.

ROWE says:
People in a ROWE work together. The difference is it may not look like the 1950’s workplace, but work is getting done. And I have a difficult time believing that ‘forcing’ someone to collaborate using a 1950’s workstyle – such as sitting in a meeting room face to face – leads to productive, creative and motivated teams. What leads to productive, creative and motivated teams is treating people like adults who have brains and not forcing old-fashioned and outdated workstyles on them.

Michelle says:
ROWE allows people to exist in their comfort zone and yet pushing people outside their comfort zone very often leads to a better result for the organization, with respect to creativity or productivity, and a better result for the individual in their increased confidence and sense of achievement.

ROWE says:
Huh? Having everyone march into an office and sit in a cube day after day after day pushes them outside their comfort zone?

What leads to a sense of confidence and achievement is having a clear understanding of the outcome of your job and how to measure it and then being able to use common sense to get it done. One individual in a ROWE stated, “ROWE is the best thing that I have ever experienced at work. I have less stress and feel that I contribute more genuinely to the organization than before ROWE. I’m not only more productive, but the QUALITY of my outputs has increased because I’m now doing things at my own pace, and making the time to do them in my own way.”

Michelle says:
Although there may be some unnecessary meetings in a typical working environment, in a ROWE environment there are not enough meetings and valuable opportunities for discussions are lost.

ROWE says:
Why are there even some unnecessary meetings in a work environment? Talk about wasting time and money! In a ROWE, the work gets done. The people decide if a meeting is necessary to accomplish the work. If it’s not, no meeting. One individual said, “With ROWE, I believe the majority of meetings I attend are more productive and needs-based as opposed to check-in meetings.”

Michelle says:
In project management, time and budget are inextricably tied up with the results. It is almost impossible to measure the success of a project without taking the time and schedule into account. Instead of simply being able to measure this in working days, the project manager would have to record all the individual hours and the actual hours worked would cease to relate meaningfully to the elapsed time.

ROWE says:
In project management, understanding the outcome and meeting deadlines on time and on budget is everyone’s job. Recording everyone’s individual hours and the actual hours worked becomes a meaningless exercise.

If you are on planet earth and have a job, you should be in a ROWE.

ROWE is not a flexibility program. A ROWE is an environment where adults are accountable and each person has the freedom to succeed or fail, not based on ‘showing up’ to put in time, but based on achieving the results they were hired to achieve.

A project manager (and Lean Six Sigma Black Belt) in a ROWE said, “In my 10+ years as a manager, I have never seen a concept that could more quickly or completely unleash the power of employees to focus on customers’ needs, eliminate waste, motivate teams, or attract and retain talent better than ROWE.”

I agree.

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  • Shelly

    Why can’t we just evolve and get over this “working in a cube” mentality!  Is it insecurity, is it the need to control, is it OCD, I mean seriously what is it that makes people think you have to have your butt in a chair? I am shocked at Symon’s article, but I shouldn’t be.  I work in this narrow, out-dated mode every day and all it does is stifle my creativity and makes me resentful  You know what I do during “forced” collaborations?  I draw weird designs on my paper.  Talk about a good use of my time! 

    • Anonymous

      @Shelly – sadly, you’re not alone. Weird designs are filling notebooks at workplaces all over…being drawn because people are ready to poke their eyes out with boredom, frustration, and anger. They’re sitting in conference rooms with one thought – “Get me out of here!!!”

      The desire to “force” people to collaborate often exists because results aren’t clear – or don’t exist at all. But if they’re made to sit in an office or a room together, something might happen. When organizations go ROWE and get clear on results and measures, they examine how they’re utilizing their time very closely – because every second needs to be productive and well worth it.

      One of the best stories from our vault is from an agency we worked with to implement ROWE. After operating in a ROWE for a year, they went back to their calendars to find out how many meetings they had eliminated once they were focused on results vs. time/physical presence. Within three months of working in the ROWE mindset, they eliminated 2,000 hours of meetings. Yes – *2,000*. And their business grew by 23% in that first year, too.

      Thanks for the comment, Shelly – let’s hope things change for you soon…

      • Jlpm

        So what happens if you’re a small corporation – consultants to a big corporation and the big corporation wants to have set meeting at set times?

  • http://twitter.com/MarkPilip Mark Pilipczuk

    The compliance culture is grasping at straws here.  Why should being in the same place at the same time increase collaboration?  

    Further, it’s an awfully selfish view of the world if you believe that people should be hanging around just in case you want to bounce some stuff off of them in person.

    • Anonymous

      @Mark – you mean you’re not going to sit around an office waiting for me to stop by to collaborate? :) Good decision. Michelle’s points of view relay so many of the old beliefs that are very much alive about how work should happen. In the Foreword to our book, Brad Anderson (former CEO of Best Buy) states “ROWE has set a foundation for what people *really* need to do their jobs…not what management [or anyone else] *thinks* they need.” That’s a perfect way to describe what happens in a ROWE. When everyone is focused on results, the work gets done – efficiently, creatively, and in a way that delights the customer – and people don’t need to be told *how* to do that.

      Thanks for the comment!

    • KellyK

      “Further, it’s an awfully selfish view of the world if you believe that people should be hanging around just in case you want to bounce some stuff off of them in person.”
       
      Absolutely!  If you need to work with someone in person, schedule a time and place in advance with them.  (I work on a project based in another office—we do a lot of collaborating by phone, and take turns traveling to meet in person.  It works out fine.)  If you need to bounce something off someone right when you think of it, that’s what phone, IM, e-mail, are for. 
       
      One problem with the traditional work evnronment is that we have the illusion of instant availability, and people become dependent on being able to talk to whoever they need to talk to “right now.”  But even in that environment, you don’t always get to talk to them right now.  What if they’re meeting with a client, or home sick, or at lunch?  What if they’re working away with their door closed and their headphones on because people keep popping in on them and disrupting their train of thought?

      • Anonymous

        @KellyK – right on! The illusion of instant availability in the traditional work environment is very much alive. This also brings up all of the ‘socially acceptable’/'socially unacceptable’
        reasons for not being physically present in the work environment. If you’re at a meeting, it’s okay to not be waiting for a question at your desk – then people will email you or find another way to communicate (or sometimes just stop by your desk 20 times waiting for the meeting to end). But if people know you’re doing something ‘socially unacceptable’ when they have a question, that’s when Sludge starts being spewed:

        “Great – I have a question and Nancy is nowhere to be found. Must be nice to be able to just take off for your kids’ activities all the time.”

        If Nancy would have made it known that she was double-booked with meetings all day, people would have no problem e-mailing, texting, etc.

        Oh – the tangled webs of the workplace. RESULTS, RESULTS, RESULTS!!! :)

  • http://www.peakalignment.com Dave Needham

    The biggest challenge I see for so many people is distinguishing the importance of deadlines (results-oriented) over schedules (control-oriented).  If you struggle with setting clear deadlines (and the reasons for them) as well as holding people accountable to them (aka challenging people to produce results ON TIME) then yes, you will struggle in a ROWE.  To use Michelle’s verbiage, your “comfort zone” is around control, not accountability. 

    And being present is not synonymous with being ‘available.’  I am always available…and I do not even have a desk at the company I am working with. Are her project members okay with being contacted at 730 at night regarding a project question? I am.  My office phone…is in my pocket wherever I go.

    Oh, and as a currently acting project manager, my three concurrent projects with three different project teams and aggressive 4 month timelines…are ALL ahead of schedule by a full month. 

    Sorry, Michelle.  I disagree…ROWE is the essence of quality project management.  Clear expectations + clear purpose + clear outcomes + clear deadlines = CLEAR RESULTS.  If you are project managing by people’s presence, I would argue you are doing more babysitting than managing towards results.  If people have control of their time back, they have benefit in working faster.  My guess is, she gets paid by the HOUR, not by the outcome.

    • Anonymous

      @Dave – can you hear us clapping?! Love what you’ve written – especially about the “comfort zone” being about control, not accountability. I had a conversation yesterday where I was asked how autonomy and accountability can operate together. Completely agree with you – they really can’t live separately. And to really make them sing together, clear consequences need to exist (and be executed) for not performing.

      In a ROWE, you don’t hold people accountable for *how* they’re meeting results…you hold them accountable for meeting them. Period.

      Congrats on being ahead of schedule on all of your projects!! But what I want to know is…where are you and how many hours have you put in on those projects? :)

  • http://twitter.com/PersephoneK PersephoneK

    A few things stood out to me (well all of it did, but I’ll spare everyone ALL of my thoughts, LOL!):

    1) Michelle says:
    Team-building requires people to mix and learn to work together. It may sometimes, or often, be easier for many people not to have to co-operate with other members of the team, but it is only this “forced” collaboration that leads to a productive, creative and motivated team.

    PersephoneK says:This goes against everything Dan Pink in “Drive” and 50 years of repeated studies say about what motivates humans.  ”Forced” rarely = most productive and creative and motivated.  I challenge any evidence to the contrary.  Additionally, Team-building team-schmilding.  That’s just a fancy word for describing how companies try to force you to like your co-workers in a way the real world never forces you to like people.  You can work with people who aren’t your best friends, and that is ok.  If you can’t work with them, you probably can’t get results and therefore you can’t complete your job.  That’s the outcome, not schmoopy bonding sessions.  Also, “working together” is often just code for covering up non-work and giving the appearance of work rather than actually accomplishing something. 

    2) Michelle says:ROWE allows people to exist in their comfort zone and yet pushing people outside their comfort zone very often leads to a better result for the organization, with respect to creativity or productivity, and a better result for the individual in their increased confidence and sense of achievement.

    PersephoneK  says:This one is sort of related to the previous one I cited, but I’ll take another angle to combat the insanity.  Its been proven that there are two broad types of personalities: Introverts and Extroverts.  In her amazing book, “Introvert Power,” Dr. Laurie Helgoe also details how in contrast to previously mis-cited statistics, introverts make up half the population. What’s more interesting, introverts and extroverts actually have different brain chemistry.  And that often introverts are seen by others incorrectly as extroverts because they have learned to appear as though they are extroverts (aka fake it in order to fit in). 
    Brain Chemistry in a nutshell (also, this is a generalization… people are all individuals and have blended traits to a degree, but all have a dominant type): 
    Introverts naturally are at a high level of stimulation so they typically seek to have fewer social contacts, but prefer higher quality interactions.  They also prefer to ponder and absorb information before reacting to it.  This is largely because they CAN’T think while talking.  

    Extroverts naturally are at a lower level of stimulation so they seek to get more stimulation via MORE social contacts.  They chat with lots of people at the party. They think while talking.

    Where am I going with this?  It seems to me that by forcing one personality type (introverts) to behave like the “dominant” personality type (extroverts are dominant or more indicative of American culture) is purely based on a superficial perception in today’s workplaces, based on extroverts craving constant stimulation via the form of quantities of interactions, that quiet people are just shy and they can learn to be “more confident.”  The fact is that introverts aren’t necessarily shy.  That’s completely different.  Their brain WORKS DIFFERENTLY.  By forcing an introvert to try to be like an extrovert (or vice versa) it is a recipe for full on failure of collaboration.

    What I love about ROWE… it allows introverts to finally show that they can be as amazing as the extroverts (or the introverts faking it) have always appeared to be at achieving results.

    3)  Michelle says: In project management, time and budget are inextricably tied up with the results. It is almost impossible to measure the success of a project without taking the time and schedule into account. Instead of simply being able to measure this in working days, the project manager would have to record all the individual hours and the actual hours worked would cease to relate meaningfully to the elapsed time.

    PersephoneK  says:
    This is probably the most frequently cited reason why ROWE can’t work in project management (or really anywhere).  Its basically saying, “this is the way we’ve always measured what a project is worth… by tracking time… and without that we have no idea what we’re doing or why.”  So… that’s not good.  This is compounded in the contractor world, where you’re scrutinized to an even higher level on how you spend your time regardless of what you’re achieving.  I keep 4 time sheets.  And even though I’m producing results for the projects I’m working, I still manage to feel guilty if I stare blankly at my computer for ten minutes during a mental reboot yet bill for it.  Why should I feel guilty?  I’m doing what the company wants and more as far as project results, yet I have still internalized this as being “wrong” behavior.  And my colleagues would probably agree.  Hello!!!  How about measuring the value of the final product the project produces (say that ten times fast) instead of being caught up in completely meaningless project resource hours (these are usually estimates anyway that many times end up requiring the team to fudge how much time they actually spend working the project so that it conforms to the estimate… )?  

    Ok, enough from me!

    Cheers,

    • Anonymous

      @PersephoneK – can Ms. Symon just talk directly with you and others who have commented here? That would be beautiful!!

      I’m really enjoying the information you’ve relayed about introverts and extroverts. We always say that ROWE levels the playing field in so many different ways…and this is definitely one more. Thanks for shining the light on this in a way I don’t think we’ve seen before…really helpful!

      ***We’d love to hear from others on this particular topic – how does your personality type play a role in how you approach work? Do you find that your work environment stifles your personality type or forces you to ‘fake it’ as PersephoneK put it?

      • http://twitter.com/PersephoneK PersephoneK

        Sign me up (to talk directly with Ms. Symon)!  :)  

        I am glad you enjoyed the stuff about introverts/extroverts.  I have been meaning to send ya’ll a note for quite some time, but had a couple of tech fails in the process. I strongly recommend to introverts and anyone who is close to an introvert (aka pretty much everyone), to check out Dr. Helgoe’s book (you can learn more about it and her work at her website: http://wakingdesire.com/index.htm).  As an introvert myself, I have never read anything that both so perfectly explained who I am, but also gave me the freedom to finally embrace myself.  It was truly a life-changing read (much like WWS…)

        As you all know, the job I left last year after 8 years in the organization was fraught with stress and frustration for me during the last few years.  Looking back on that experience in the context of “Introvert Power” I realize that during the worst part of that experience, I was trying to finally be myself (aka an introvert) and go about my work as an introvert without faking who I am.  It ended badly for me culminating in supervisors lying about my performance in a performance review and in a promotion application largely because I did not play the social game, but instead focused on achieving results.  Was I incapable of playing the social game?  No… not at all.  I had played it successfully many times in my career.  And I have many friends to this day at that organization who find me perfectly pleasant to be around (if not challenging to have a conversation with, LOL).  I had made the choice not to play social and political games because I felt in this case it was interfering in achievement (hard to explain) of high-stakes results.  I wasn’t mean, or rude, or unfriendly (though people were that to me).  I was just quiet, and went about meeting with people one-on-one instead of calling giant meetings that garnered lots of attention.  I was quiet during meetings so that I could listen and absorb instead of talking constantly and loudly as my manager’s expected.  Or, when I did speak, I had something to say that was often not what management wanted to hear (aka the Truth). During that year, I achieved more as far as results go than I ever had before, and I’m extremely proud of that work, and I feel it had tremendous meaning.  Yet, because I did not “fake it” I was eventually driven to quit (though management would never admit to, or even understand that is what they did) a profession I cared deeply about.

        I did not understand all of that at the time, and I suppose one could criticize me for Monday Morning Quarterbacking or rationalizing a bad situation, but I honestly think that in hindsight it was a fundamental difference in who I am versus the very extroverted culture of the organization and in particular the org’s management culture.  We clashed at a basic level that if it had been a ROWE would never have happened because the results I achieved would have stood for themselves and everything else would have been revealed as attempts to control how I worked and my techniques.  Its a shame, both for me and that organization.  We lost each other, and it didn’t have to be that way.

        So, that is my personal experience with introverted vs. extroverted culture…  

        Side Note:  Helgoe points out how different cultures/societies have different dominant types.  America = extroverted whereas Japan = introverted, so in Japan, its the extroverts who struggle to fit in and have to fake it.  

      • Anonymous

        @PersephoneK – so fascinating…thank you for sharing your story. It’s definitely a shame that the organization wasn’t willing to look at *what* you were producing vs. *how*. We see this so much in teams we work with – the dynamics of the extroverts and introverts…and how games are played just to try to fit in. You did the right thing when you decided to put that energy toward achieving stellar results…and you should remain very proud of what you accomplished.

        So glad Dr. Helgoe’s book made its way into your hands. Continue to embrace who you are!

  • Shelly

    Great conversation regarding introvert and extroverts and I had never really thought about the role that has in the work place.  I am not sure where I fall in these two “catergories” but I fake it often, like most probably do.  My job in my organization is to write.  I can write anywhere, anytime to get my job done.  However, I am forced to write between the hours of 8:30 and 4:30.  So for me it is not so much about faking but about trying to be creative on a time schedule.  It is bad for me because I can’t always turn it off and on and I often get discouraged. It is bad for the organization I work for because if I can’t turn in on in the dictated hours, I can’t produce a quality product. 

    The articles comments about forced collaborations made me think of a time when the party planning committee had planned a baby shower for a co-worker.  I remember sitting in my office working, with no intentions of attending, and management actually went around to the offices shooing people out and telling them they needed to participate in the baby shower.  Alot of forced co-worker bonding! 

    • Anonymous

      @Shelly – thanks for commenting! Forcing yourself to be creative at certain times is exhausting…definitely an understatement. We hear from a lot of employees in writing/creative jobs who are just as frustrated as you are. Being creative on a time schedule just doesn’t work – plain and simple. Creativity often strikes at the most surprising times – and trying to force it to take place in certain places and certain times is painful. Literally.

      The baby shower story makes me wonder what we’d see inside everyone’s heads if we were to look inside them during all of the forced bonding moments in the workplace. I wonder what percentage of people, if given the choice to spend their time any way they want, would still participate in the work baby showers, birthday parties, barbecues, Pizza Fridays, or Donut Mondays. Any guesses?

    • http://twitter.com/PersephoneK PersephoneK

      Hi Shelly!  Regarding figuring out where you fall on the introvert/extrovert scale, I highly recommend doing so.  Know thyself!  There are many ways you can do so from the detailed Myers-Briggs, or free internet knock-off versions of it to other similar tests out there.  A simple way is to just think about how you prefer to interact with people.  Do you crave lots of contacts regardless of the quality of your interactions and feel energized by meeting many people almost all of the time?  When you’re alone, do you feel unsettled more than relaxed?  If so, you’re probably an extrovert.  In contrast, do you feel the need to recharge your batteries after a long day by having some alone time?  Do you prefer quiet in depth conversations with a few close friends as opposed to working the room at the party?  If so, you’re probably an introvert.  That said, we all have traits from both sides of the house, but everyone has them to different degrees.

      Regarding your baby shower story, all I can really say is “uhg.”  I can’t tell you how much I loathe work baby/wedding showers.  They are most often for people you rarely socialize with outside of work, yet you’re expected to bring a gift, and if you don’t participate, you’re viewed suspiciously or as a cheapskate.  I finally swore off all of them (with the exception of my closest actual friend).  But I can’t believe they actually made you go to a baby shower at work.  That is just wrong.

  • Anonymous

    You can distill the entirety of Michelle Symons article down into exactly one sentence, which she helpfully provides. It reads:

    “When you need to talk to other members of the team they may or may not be there”

    These eighteen words are absolutely dripping with subtext. They provide a subtle reminder that work is not about results but about control. Of course you can’t talk to other members of the team when you want to do so. They have lives and work to do! Instead, you need to schedule time with them to share ideas.
    Of course ROWE is compatible with project management. However, it does seem clear that ROWE is not compatible with command-and-control, lack-of-respect and other common corporate paradigms.

    • Anonymous

      @robbyslaughter – love, love, love your last two sentences. Right on. Just had a conversation with someone today who asked “What types of organizations are more difficult to implement ROWE in?” It was clear they thought it would depend on the industry or what the organization did. Not so at all. It doesn’t matter if the organization is designing airplanes, making chocolate cake, or caring for animals – what makes an implementation difficult is the extent to which command-and-control permeates the mindsets and culture we’re working with. We’re on the same page with that!

      • Jan Vafa

        Is this true even when you are in a very collaborative industry such as the Software industry?  Code needs to be checked in and out and compiled into a build which is then released to the test group which then finds bugs and returns the build to the developers to fix so code is checked out rewritten checked back in and on the cycle goes… can ROWE work in this industry?

      • http://www.gorowe.com Cali Ressler

        @Jan – can ROWE work in this industry? Absolutely – yes. This cycle you’ve described is part of getting to the outcome/results – and in a ROWE, results must be achieved. ROWE teams/departments report higher levels of collaboration and a greater ability to clarify with each other exactly what needs to happen to get to an outcome.

  • KellyK

    The “not enough meetings” comment was the one that struck me.  If a meeting is required, people will schedule a meeting. Depending on who needs to attend, it might happen in the office or over Skype. I wonder if this is confusing “work when and where you want to/need to” with “nothing is scheduled ever at all.”   

    • Anonymous

      @KellyK – this comment about meetings is a doozy. You’re right – if a meeting is the best way to get to results and help achieve an outcome, it will happen. One thing that Symons might be confusing is the activities with the outcome. It appears that to her, “meetings” look like work so if there are lots of meetings happening, people must be working toward an outcome. Too often (actually *way* too often), people are flitting around doing activities, but when asked what their outcome is, they don’t know.

      A meeting isn’t an outcome – that needs to be defined first and then the right activities can be determined.

  • http://twitter.com/kmfalk kmfalk

    I couldn’t agree more…and I think that ROWE fosters better communication for a team. Most people rely on meetings because they are lazy, unprepared, or don’t know how to move something forward…

    • Anonymous

      @kmfalk – we just worked with one company where every employee had an ‘auto-accept’ set for the meetings they were invited to. In other words, they never even looked at what they were being invited to, what the outcome was, or what their role would be. Just blindly accepted and went…often, sitting in rooms for hours on end wasting their lives away. Not to mention the waste of company money!

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